Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/30/1994 01:50 PM House FIN
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 30, 1994
1:50 P.M.
TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 2, #000 - #392.
CALL TO ORDER
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 1:50 P.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Foster
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Therriault
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Grussendorf
Representatives Navarre and Hoffman were not present for the
meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Portia Babcock, Staff, Senator Loren Leman; Senator Loren
Leman; Representative Brian Porter; Dave Williams, Division
of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social
Services; John Sherwood, Division of Medical Assistance,
Department of Health and Social Services; Phil Petrie,
Operations Manager, Child Support Enforcement Agency,
Department of Revenue; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant
Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law.
SUMMARY
SB 366 An Act relating to medical support for children;
allowing a member of the teachers' retirement
system or the public employees' retirement system
to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the
member's right to receive a monetary benefit from
the system; relating to the effect of a
Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a
person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of
certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts;
requiring persons who receive Medicaid services to
be liable for sharing in the cost of those
services to the extent allowed under federal law
and regulations; and providing for an effective
date.
1
CS SB 366 (FIN) am (efd fld) was reported out of
Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with
fiscal notes by the Department of Health and
Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
dated 4/12/94.
SJR 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the
right of the people to keep and bear arms as
approved by the voters at the time of ratification
of the state Constitution, that the individual
right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or
infringed by the state or a political subdivision
of the state.
SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the
Office of the Governor dated 1/24/94 and a zero
fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety
dated 2/15/94.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 39
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State
of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the
people to keep and bear arms as approved by the voters
at the time of ratification of the state Constitution,
that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall
not be denied or infringed by the state or a political
subdivision of the state.
PORTIA BABCOCK, STAFF, SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, spoke to SJR 39
relating to an individual's right to keep and bear arms.
The resolution would change the language to Article #19
guaranteeing an individual the right to keep and bear arms.
Current law does guarantee an individual the right to bear
arms, although many have challenged that law and will
continue to do so. Current language is ambiguous, whereas,
several attempts have been made in past Legislature's to
clarify the right of the "individual" citizen to own a
firearm, whether it be for hunting, recreation, liberty, or
defense of self, home, family or state.
Ms. Babcock added that there is no existing Alaska Supreme
Court interpretation of that language either as assurance or
prohibition of that right. There have been numerous
attempts to place restrictions on law-abiding citizens who
own firearms, although the potential for unreasonable
firearm restrictions has become likely.
2
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER spoke in support of the House
Judiciary Committee version of the legislation indicating
that firearm laws enacted by the Legislature have been
reasonable and responsible and that there is no information
available to change that fact.
Representative Porter commented that the amendment must be
drafted so as to use language previously interpreted by the
courts in past years. The House Judiciary Committee
inserted the word "unreasonably", in order to read: "The
individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be
unreasonably denied or infringed by the State or a political
subdivision of the State." He added that the word
"unreasonable" is found in both U.S. and Alaska
constitutions and that for over 200 years there has been
protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.
Representative Parnell questioned the amendment to SJR 39
which would change the level of judicial scrutiny to laws
relating to weapons.
DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, declared that the Alaska
Supreme Court uses a sliding scale of scrutiny which applies
to the Constitution and state laws for protection
challenges. The highest level of scrutiny which the Court
employees is always a compelling state interest.
Mr. Guaneli continued that the lower end of the scrutiny
scale would involve scrutiny by the Court to address rights
involving a "rational basis" test. As long as the
Legislature has a rational reason for the law to pass, then
the law will suffice and will then comply with the
constitution. He thought the firearm laws would fall in the
lower end category and that the amendment would increase the
level of scrutiny the Courts would apply to gun laws.
Discussion followed between Representative Parnell and Mr.
Guaneli regarding "restriction" of firearms and the rational
basis of that restriction. Representative Porter advised of
the constitutional right to privacy which could be
considered a "compelling" reason against the law.
Representative Brown asked if either version of the
legislation would affect the "concealed weapons"
legislation. Mr. Guaneli mentioned a number of provisions
in the concealed weapons bill which could be struck down
under a broad right to bear arms. Current law requires a
person to wait ninety days to apply for a concealed weapons
permit. He felt that this amount of time could not increase
the police's ability to check a persons record.
Additionally, law currently requires that a person be 21
3
years of age before they qualify for a concealed weapons
permit.
Representative Brown questioned if that type of restriction
would be permissible under the "unreasonably" denied
language. Mr. Guaneli disclosed that those kinds of
restrictions would more easily pass a test in the State
indicating "there being a rational basis".
Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment #1 deleting
"unreasonably" and the language referenced in Section 29,
the Application of Amendments of Section 19 of Article 1.
He understood that keeping that language would weaken the
national intent.
Representative Foster stated that without Amendment #1 the
House Judiciary version would return to the proposed Senate
version of the legislation. Representative Martin explained
that the Senate would not be required to accept changes made
to the House Judiciary version of the legislation.
Discussion followed clarifying the intent of the amendment.
Representative Martin MOVED TO WITHDRAW the MOTION to adopt
Amendment #1. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Martin MOVED to adopt the Senate version of
SJR 39. Representative Brown OBJECTED.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Parnell, Therriault, Foster,
Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin.
OPPOSED: Brown, Larson.
Representatives Navarre, Hoffman and MacLean were not
present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-2).
Representative Foster MOVED to report SJR 39 out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTIONS, it
was so ordered.
SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass"
recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the
Governor dated 1/14/94 and a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety dated 2/01/94.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-149, Side 2).
SENATE BILL 366
4
"An Act relating to medical support for children;
allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or
the public employees' retirement system to assign to a
Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive
a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the
effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the
eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the
recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and
trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services
to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services
to the extent allowed under federal law and
regulations; and providing for an effective date."
DAVE WILLIAMS, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, explained that under the federal
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (OBRA 93), State
Medicaid programs must implement provisions to obtain and
enforce medical support orders for noncustodial parents on
behalf of Medicaid-eligible children and to recover Medicaid
expenditures on long term care and related expenditures for
Medicaid recipients age 55 or older. He stressed that
implementation of these provisions are necessary in order to
avoid loss of federal financial participation in the Alaska
Medicaid program.
SB 366 would require the Medicaid program to impose co-
payments for Medicaid-funded services, to the maximum extent
possible. The provision would reduce Medicaid expenditures
and shift costs to Medicaid recipients and providers.
Discussion followed regarding the implementation of "co-
payments" nominal fees. Mr. Williams disclosed that the
fees would provide reduced Medicaid payments for services
provided.
Mr. Williams emphasized that "co-payments" would not effect
service delivery. Representative Brown asked if the "co-
payments" would provide a medical order to cover Medicaid
services.
JOHN SHERWOOD, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, informed the Committee that the
medical support provisions would parallel other support
provisions already existing for AFDC clients extending those
provisions to clients who only receive Medicaid. Child
Support Enforcement would then be directed to seek medical
support orders from non-custodial parents. The legislation
provides tools to enforce those orders.
Representative Brown noted concern for the already
overburdened Child Support Enforcement Agency pointing out
5
the current year budget cuts. She stressed that the agency
would not be able to assume any additional obligations.
PHIL PETRIE, OPERATIONS MANAGER, CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, responded that the
legislation would place the agency into compliance with
federal requirements written in 1985. He added at this time
the agency completes orders for Medicaid clients, although
recently there has been a hearing officer's decision
indicating no authority for that concern under state
statute. Mr. Petrie concluded that Child Support
Enforcement will absorb the costs as part of their regular
medical support.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld)
out of Committee with individual recommendations and with
the accompanying fiscal notes.
Representative Brown addressed the Letter of Intent provided
by the Senate Finance Committee. The letter would override
the current law by providing the Department minimal
flexibility in order to waiver the application of policy.
Mr. Williams explained that the maximum extent allowable
would cost more to collect than that to be received.
Representative Brown warned that the intent language would
provide a clause stating that it would not cost more than
the amount anticipated to receive.
There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill from Committee,
it was so ordered.
There was NO MOTION TO ADOPT the Letter of Intent.
CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) was reported out of Committee
with "do pass" recommendation and with three fiscal notes by
the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero
fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development dated 4/412/94.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 3:00 P.M.
HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE
April 30, 1994
1:50 P.M.
TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 1, #000 - end.
TAPE HFC 94 - 149, Side 2, #000 - #392.
CALL TO ORDER
6
Co-Chair Larson called the House Finance Committee meeting
to order at 1:50 P.M.
PRESENT
Co-Chair Larson Representative Foster
Co-Chair MacLean Representative Martin
Vice-Chair Hanley Representative Therriault
Representative Brown Representative Parnell
Representative Grussendorf
Representatives Navarre and Hoffman were not present for the
meeting.
ALSO PRESENT
Portia Babcock, Staff, Senator Loren Leman; Senator Loren
Leman; Representative Brian Porter; Dave Williams, Division
of Medical Assistance, Department of Health and Social
Services; John Sherwood, Division of Medical Assistance,
Department of Health and Social Services; Phil Petrie,
Operations Manager, Child Support Enforcement Agency,
Department of Revenue; Dean Guaneli, Chief, Assistant
Attorney General, Criminal Division, Department of Law.
SUMMARY
SB 366 An Act relating to medical support for children;
allowing a member of the teachers' retirement
system or the public employees' retirement system
to assign to a Medicaid-qualifying trust the
member's right to receive a monetary benefit from
the system; relating to the effect of a
Medicaid-qualifying trust on the eligibility of a
person for Medicaid; relating to the recovery of
certain Medicaid payments from estates and trusts;
requiring persons who receive Medicaid services to
be liable for sharing in the cost of those
services to the extent allowed under federal law
and regulations; and providing for an effective
date.
CS SB 366 (FIN) am (efd fld) was reported out of
Committee with a "do pass" recommendation and with
fiscal notes by the Department of Health and
Social Services and a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Commerce and Economic Development
dated 4/12/94.
SJR 39 Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the
right of the people to keep and bear arms as
7
approved by the voters at the time of ratification
of the state Constitution, that the individual
right to keep and bear arms shall not be denied or
infringed by the state or a political subdivision
of the state.
SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do
pass" recommendation and with a fiscal note by the
Office of the Governor dated 1/24/94 and a zero
fiscal note by the Department of Public Safety
dated 2/15/94.
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION 39
Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State
of Alaska to guarantee, in addition to the right of the
people to keep and bear arms as approved by the voters
at the time of ratification of the state Constitution,
that the individual right to keep and bear arms shall
not be denied or infringed by the state or a political
subdivision of the state.
PORTIA BABCOCK, STAFF, SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, spoke to SJR 39
relating to an individual's right to keep and bear arms.
The resolution would change the language to Article #19
guaranteeing an individual the right to keep and bear arms.
Current law does guarantee an individual the right to bear
arms, although many have challenged that law and will
continue to do so. Current language is ambiguous, whereas,
several attempts have been made in past Legislature's to
clarify the right of the "individual" citizen to own a
firearm, whether it be for hunting, recreation, liberty, or
defense of self, home, family or state.
Ms. Babcock added that there is no existing Alaska Supreme
Court interpretation of that language either as assurance or
prohibition of that right. There have been numerous
attempts to place restrictions on law-abiding citizens who
own firearms, although the potential for unreasonable
firearm restrictions has become likely.
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER spoke in support of the House
Judiciary Committee version of the legislation indicating
that firearm laws enacted by the Legislature have been
reasonable and responsible and that there is no information
available to change that fact.
Representative Porter commented that the amendment must be
drafted so as to use language previously interpreted by the
courts in past years. The House Judiciary Committee
inserted the word "unreasonably", in order to read: "The
8
individual right to keep and bear arms shall not be
unreasonably denied or infringed by the State or a political
subdivision of the State." He added that the word
"unreasonable" is found in both U.S. and Alaska
constitutions and that for over 200 years there has been
protection against unreasonable searches and seizures.
Representative Parnell questioned the amendment to SJR 39
which would change the level of judicial scrutiny to laws
relating to weapons.
DEAN GUANELI, CHIEF, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL
DIVISION, DEPARTMENT OF LAW, declared that the Alaska
Supreme Court uses a sliding scale of scrutiny which applies
to the Constitution and state laws for protection
challenges. The highest level of scrutiny which the Court
employees is always a compelling state interest.
Mr. Guaneli continued that the lower end of the scrutiny
scale would involve scrutiny by the Court to address rights
involving a "rational basis" test. As long as the
Legislature has a rational reason for the law to pass, then
the law will suffice and will then comply with the
constitution. He thought the firearm laws would fall in the
lower end category and that the amendment would increase the
level of scrutiny the Courts would apply to gun laws.
Discussion followed between Representative Parnell and Mr.
Guaneli regarding "restriction" of firearms and the rational
basis of that restriction. Representative Porter advised of
the constitutional right to privacy which could be
considered a "compelling" reason against the law.
Representative Brown asked if either version of the
legislation would affect the "concealed weapons"
legislation. Mr. Guaneli mentioned a number of provisions
in the concealed weapons bill which could be struck down
under a broad right to bear arms. Current law requires a
person to wait ninety days to apply for a concealed weapons
permit. He felt that this amount of time could not increase
the police's ability to check a persons record.
Additionally, law currently requires that a person be 21
years of age before they qualify for a concealed weapons
permit.
Representative Brown questioned if that type of restriction
would be permissible under the "unreasonably" denied
language. Mr. Guaneli disclosed that those kinds of
restrictions would more easily pass a test in the State
indicating "there being a rational basis".
Representative Martin MOVED to adopt Amendment #1 deleting
9
"unreasonably" and the language referenced in Section 29,
the Application of Amendments of Section 19 of Article 1.
He understood that keeping that language would weaken the
national intent.
Representative Foster stated that without Amendment #1 the
House Judiciary version would return to the proposed Senate
version of the legislation. Representative Martin explained
that the Senate would not be required to accept changes made
to the House Judiciary version of the legislation.
Discussion followed clarifying the intent of the amendment.
Representative Martin MOVED TO WITHDRAW the MOTION to adopt
Amendment #1. There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.
Representative Martin MOVED to adopt the Senate version of
SJR 39. Representative Brown OBJECTED.
A roll call vote was taken on the MOTION.
IN FAVOR: Parnell, Therriault, Foster,
Grussendorf, Hanley, Martin.
OPPOSED: Brown, Larson.
Representatives Navarre, Hoffman and MacLean were not
present for the vote.
The MOTION PASSED (6-2).
Representative Foster MOVED to report SJR 39 out of
Committee with individual recommendations and with the
accompanying fiscal notes. There being NO OBJECTIONS, it
was so ordered.
SJR 39 was reported out of Committee with a "do pass"
recommendation and with a fiscal note by the Office of the
Governor dated 1/14/94 and a zero fiscal note by the
Department of Public Safety dated 2/01/94.
(Tape Change, HFC 94-149, Side 2).
SENATE BILL 366
"An Act relating to medical support for children;
allowing a member of the teachers' retirement system or
the public employees' retirement system to assign to a
Medicaid-qualifying trust the member's right to receive
a monetary benefit from the system; relating to the
effect of a Medicaid-qualifying trust on the
eligibility of a person for Medicaid; relating to the
recovery of certain Medicaid payments from estates and
trusts; requiring persons who receive Medicaid services
10
to be liable for sharing in the cost of those services
to the extent allowed under federal law and
regulations; and providing for an effective date."
DAVE WILLIAMS, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, explained that under the federal
Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993 (OBRA 93), State
Medicaid programs must implement provisions to obtain and
enforce medical support orders for noncustodial parents on
behalf of Medicaid-eligible children and to recover Medicaid
expenditures on long term care and related expenditures for
Medicaid recipients age 55 or older. He stressed that
implementation of these provisions are necessary in order to
avoid loss of federal financial participation in the Alaska
Medicaid program.
SB 366 would require the Medicaid program to impose co-
payments for Medicaid-funded services, to the maximum extent
possible. The provision would reduce Medicaid expenditures
and shift costs to Medicaid recipients and providers.
Discussion followed regarding the implementation of "co-
payments" nominal fees. Mr. Williams disclosed that the
fees would provide reduced Medicaid payments for services
provided.
Mr. Williams emphasized that "co-payments" would not effect
service delivery. Representative Brown asked if the "co-
payments" would provide a medical order to cover Medicaid
services.
JOHN SHERWOOD, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ASSISTANCE, DEPARTMENT OF
HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, informed the Committee that the
medical support provisions would parallel other support
provisions already existing for AFDC clients extending those
provisions to clients who only receive Medicaid. Child
Support Enforcement would then be directed to seek medical
support orders from non-custodial parents. The legislation
provides tools to enforce those orders.
Representative Brown noted concern for the already
overburdened Child Support Enforcement Agency pointing out
the current year budget cuts. She stressed that the agency
would not be able to assume any additional obligations.
PHIL PETRIE, OPERATIONS MANAGER, CHILD SUPPORT ENFORCEMENT
AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, responded that the
legislation would place the agency into compliance with
federal requirements written in 1985. He added at this time
the agency completes orders for Medicaid clients, although
recently there has been a hearing officer's decision
indicating no authority for that concern under state
11
statute. Mr. Petrie concluded that Child Support
Enforcement will absorb the costs as part of their regular
medical support.
Co-Chair MacLean MOVED to report CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld)
out of Committee with individual recommendations and with
the accompanying fiscal notes.
Representative Brown addressed the Letter of Intent provided
by the Senate Finance Committee. The letter would override
the current law by providing the Department minimal
flexibility in order to waiver the application of policy.
Mr. Williams explained that the maximum extent allowable
would cost more to collect than that to be received.
Representative Brown warned that the intent language would
provide a clause stating that it would not cost more than
the amount anticipated to receive.
There being NO OBJECTION to moving the bill from Committee,
it was so ordered.
There was NO MOTION TO ADOPT the Letter of Intent.
CS SB 366 (FIN) am(efd fld) was reported out of Committee
with "do pass" recommendation and with three fiscal notes by
the Department of Health and Social Services and a zero
fiscal note by the Department of Commerce and Economic
Development dated 4/412/94.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 3:00 P.M.
12
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